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Can We Undermine Islamic Religious Beliefs?
One obvious long-term solution to fighting Islamic extremism is to use science, logic and common sense to undermine the beliefs of their silly religion..
If you don’t agree with me about the “silly” part, I suggest you google “Islam” or “Islamic Beliefs” and see for yourself. If you say you’re “not interested”, then that’s all the more reason to wake up and get interested because the most committed of them are out to kill us and our children! That should motivate you.
(Then again, according to the Quran, all we Infidels are all destined for hell anyway (Quran 6:27), so why bother?)
Can we do it? Can we undermine Islamic beliefs using science and logic? I think we can, if only incrementally. Should we try? I think we should, although questioning anyone’s religious beliefs remains our society’s biggest taboo. It’s politically incorrect to the max. Even Howard Stern stays away from it. But now that Islamic beliefs are affecting our very security, maybe it's time to let go of the taboo.
Have you read the stuff they believe in? It shouldn’t be hard to argue that maybe this stuff is more fantasy than truth. Maybe Mohammed did not ascend into heaven from the site of the Temple Mount in present-day Jerusalem. Maybe the voice Mohammed heard was not the Angel Gabriel, but just a damn voice (remember the movie, A Beautiful Mind). Maybe it’s all just an elaborate story made up by men who were so good at fanticizing that they came to believe their own fantasties (like a certain president I know).
Of course, for me it’s not a question of “maybe”, but planting questions using the word “maybe” might be the most effective way to start the undermining process. We have to get Muslim believers to start questioning their faith! We could start with a 'captive audience" (get it?) in Guantanamo. Send some agnostics and/or Evangelical Christians down there to talk some sense into them!
It’s always been unbelievable to me that intelligent, grown adults, some quite educated, can believe in the truth of the Quran (or any holy text). But they do!!! Granted, not all Muslims are extremists, but the moderates deserve blame for supporting and enabling the radicals by not objecting loudly enough when the Quran is cited as justification for killing non-believers.
Assuming we can all agree that “undermining their religion” is a practical move, then why don’t we at least try to do it? I’m not saying it would be easy – religious faith is a powerful force. But why not begin the process? We would have the full force of logic and scientific knowledge on our side.
Then why don’t we start doing it? Why don’t we launch a deliberate campaign of planting ‘seeds of doubt” about the veracity of the Quran in the minds of Muslims? We can suggest that maybe -- just maybe -- it’s no more than a "great book” and not the “literal word of God, as revealed to His Prophet Mohammed through the Angel Gabriel.” I know from personal experience that once the doubt sets in, it can become a tsunami.
On the surface, it doesn't seem like it should be hard. (Of course it will be, thanks to the irrational Power of Religious Faith). But it’s doable over time, especially if we focus on the young. Some of those who start to doubt will get angry (as I did) over having been bullshitted all these years!
But alas, it will never happen, not with this administration. People like Bush would never consider discrediting a “great religion” like Islam – and not just because it will piss off the Muslims even more, if that's possible.
The reason: Once the taboo of publicly questioning Islam is removed, CHRISTIANITY COULD BE NEXT!
If you don’t agree with me about the “silly” part, I suggest you google “Islam” or “Islamic Beliefs” and see for yourself. If you say you’re “not interested”, then that’s all the more reason to wake up and get interested because the most committed of them are out to kill us and our children! That should motivate you.
(Then again, according to the Quran, all we Infidels are all destined for hell anyway (Quran 6:27), so why bother?)
Can we do it? Can we undermine Islamic beliefs using science and logic? I think we can, if only incrementally. Should we try? I think we should, although questioning anyone’s religious beliefs remains our society’s biggest taboo. It’s politically incorrect to the max. Even Howard Stern stays away from it. But now that Islamic beliefs are affecting our very security, maybe it's time to let go of the taboo.
Have you read the stuff they believe in? It shouldn’t be hard to argue that maybe this stuff is more fantasy than truth. Maybe Mohammed did not ascend into heaven from the site of the Temple Mount in present-day Jerusalem. Maybe the voice Mohammed heard was not the Angel Gabriel, but just a damn voice (remember the movie, A Beautiful Mind). Maybe it’s all just an elaborate story made up by men who were so good at fanticizing that they came to believe their own fantasties (like a certain president I know).
Of course, for me it’s not a question of “maybe”, but planting questions using the word “maybe” might be the most effective way to start the undermining process. We have to get Muslim believers to start questioning their faith! We could start with a 'captive audience" (get it?) in Guantanamo. Send some agnostics and/or Evangelical Christians down there to talk some sense into them!
It’s always been unbelievable to me that intelligent, grown adults, some quite educated, can believe in the truth of the Quran (or any holy text). But they do!!! Granted, not all Muslims are extremists, but the moderates deserve blame for supporting and enabling the radicals by not objecting loudly enough when the Quran is cited as justification for killing non-believers.
Assuming we can all agree that “undermining their religion” is a practical move, then why don’t we at least try to do it? I’m not saying it would be easy – religious faith is a powerful force. But why not begin the process? We would have the full force of logic and scientific knowledge on our side.
Then why don’t we start doing it? Why don’t we launch a deliberate campaign of planting ‘seeds of doubt” about the veracity of the Quran in the minds of Muslims? We can suggest that maybe -- just maybe -- it’s no more than a "great book” and not the “literal word of God, as revealed to His Prophet Mohammed through the Angel Gabriel.” I know from personal experience that once the doubt sets in, it can become a tsunami.
On the surface, it doesn't seem like it should be hard. (Of course it will be, thanks to the irrational Power of Religious Faith). But it’s doable over time, especially if we focus on the young. Some of those who start to doubt will get angry (as I did) over having been bullshitted all these years!
But alas, it will never happen, not with this administration. People like Bush would never consider discrediting a “great religion” like Islam – and not just because it will piss off the Muslims even more, if that's possible.
The reason: Once the taboo of publicly questioning Islam is removed, CHRISTIANITY COULD BE NEXT!
posted by Jim Fleming | 2:28 PM
5 Comments:
Jim,
You know that I agree with you about religion. However, with the years, I have come to realize that sometimes it’s impossible to change people because they may be afraid of the unknown and find in religion that safety to which they aspire. Now, this does not mean that it is not frustrating for us agnostic and logic people to look at a bunch of fundamentalists claiming their bullshit. But can we do? Do you really believe possible to change these people? Remember: they are afraid and don’t want to look at the evidence because it would make trembling that structural believe system from which they don’t want to separate. I admire your effort and I am sure that your sincere attempt will produce good results. Everyone has a mission and I support you. On the other hand, I don’t get upset anymore when people refuse to believe that Jesus was just a man, maybe an enlightened person but definitely not the son of god. At this point of my life, I think that the key is to live and let live, and as long as we all respect each other, every man and woman can believe in whatever they want. In Italy we have a saying that goes like this: “The world is beautiful because of its variety.” So, let the variety be, and let’s hope that people who are so attached to religion will understand the most important law of what they practice: love each other. Easy? I don’t think so, but life is a process not a destination.
Ciao for now. Keep up the voice of freedom that we can still enjoy – to some extent – in this country!!!!!
If you have abandoned one faith, do not abandon all faith. There is always an alternative to the faith we lose. Or is it the same faith under another name?
Graham Greene
All men would then be necessarily equal, if they were without needs. It is the poverty connected with our species which subordinates one man to another. It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence.
Voltaire
Have a mouth as sharp as a dagger but a heart as soft as tofu.
Chinese proverb
The superior man... does not set his mind either for anything, or against anything; what is right he will follow.
Confucius
Samuele, I agree that you "can't change people," but that only applies MOST OF THE TIME, not all of the time. It's certainly not a reason not to try. (I realize there's a downside; it would piss off the Muslims more than they're pissed off now).
I find myself becoming less tolerant of so-called "freedom of religion." How can we justify teaching kids things that are NOT true? Creationism is a good example. Most thinking people know that Creationism is not true, that Evolution is. Yet we docilely go along with the fact that half the population beleives God made humans "in their present form less than 10,000 years ago."
Worse than just believing it, we allow religious believers to teach this stuff to their kids. This does not serve the needs of the kids, nor the needs of a country that needs scientists, not believers in religious myth. I'm not criticizing or disagreing with the many "values" taught in religion. I just maintain that "values" and "religion" are two different concepts. You can have values without relgion, and vice versa.
You infer that most religious beliefs are harmless, and I agree with you. But does that mean we're not allowed to publicly ask them hard questions like: "Why do you believe that?" (and then watch 'em squirm)
I like the quotes. Thanks.
Jim,
I think that your blog is very useful because, as you said, you can’t change people, but this is not true all the time. In fact, even if you persuade one person that creationism is not true, well … you have accomplished a lot. I am an accountant and I see things in a different way, and that means that my actions follow this approach (at lest I try): results – effort = <0. In other terms, if is not so important, I don’t waste too much energy. But, as I said, this is my viewpoint, and it not necessary the only and the true approach to engaging in any effort, whatever it may be. I will give you an example. My relatives wanted my children to do their fist communion. I had two choices: fight with them and refuse to send my children to catechism or go along with the flow. In the first case, I would have compromised both my peace of mind and my relatives’; I would have not changed their thinking; I would have created friction between my children, my relatives and I. Now, my children did their first communion, but that does not make them stupid believers that the universe is ten thousand years old or passionate followers of the Christian dogmas ; they see their father living his life with a different approach, which we make call agnostic, logic, scientific, Show Me The Money (!!!!) and so on. I believe also that my children will benefit from having two different styles to compare with. Indeed, if I remember well, you said that you regret not to have talk at all about God to your children because when they were asked what they knew about God they did not know what to answer. So, where am I going with my argument? I believe that whatever you teach to a child, if this child is ready to understand and live without fear of the unknown (which means without the childish structure of religion which promise a reward at the end of our life on Earth just like a parent gives a candy to his kid who has done a good deed) then he will understand. Then, look at what has happened with the Da Vinci Code. On one side you have Dan Brown stretching his ideas to prove something, and on the other side you have the fundamentalist stretching their values to prove something else. It would be OK if both of them had the humility to sit down, discuss and realizing that both their beliefs are based on assumptions, but they are not doing it because both side have a different agendas. What do we really know about the origin of life? What do we really know about so many mysterious things happening in our lives? I know very little, and I live doing my best. If other people decide to be religious because it’s their only way out in this not “logic” world, well … what can I say? As long as they respect my freedom and they don’t bomb my house, I am OK. I won’t certainly let them convince me of their assumptions, but I will let them believe whatever they want. This is not to say that you don’t have to keep doing what you are doing. I admire you and I am on your side. It’s like when I go to the stadium to watch a soccer game: If my team wins I am happy, and if it loses I just hope they will win next time. Therefore, I am kind of skeptical about changing the world and the believe system of certain religious groups. In my opinion, the auspicated change will happen by itself because people are already questioning a lot more than they used to. Few years ago, I would have never taught that I could find translation of New Age books in Italian, the most catholic country in the world, at least because it’s the Pope’s home. I am not a New Age person, but certainly the New Age movement is more playful and intellectual interesting than most of the other religions. So, I go back to where I finished with my other comment: if we leave in peace, without thinking that we know the truth and therefore we have to impose it to everybody, I believe that the world would be a better place. Is it going to happen? Well, there is a friend of mine that said:” Would you rather be happy or right?” The answer is up to each one of us.
Jim, thank you again for your blog, and I will try to respond more often. I have access to email only at work, so it has to be the appropriate day.
Ciao!!!!!!
Samuele, Beleive it or not, I would do the same thing you did regarding my child's First Communion, although I would make sure the child understood that the so-called Transubstantiation is merely "belief" (in magic?) and not "fact", as I was taught. I think kids should "know about" religion, all religion.
I have no illusions about the difficulty of changing people's religious beliefs, but I don't like the fact that merely QUESTIONING them is TABOO in our society.
I must compliment you on your writing ability considering that Italian, and not English, is your first language.
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