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An Affront to People of Faith
Friends,
Bush said yesterday that the bombing of the Shiite mosque is an "affront to people of faith." Somebody should tell our president that it's the very "people of faith" he speaks of who did the bombing in the first place! Not only that, they did it because they are people of faith!
We talk in this country as if “people of faith” are better or wiser, that we’d be a better country if all of us had religious faith. That is wrong! Just the opposite is true.
Bush has spoken in the past of the “hijacking of a great religion.” Why is it a “great religion”, Mr. President?” You tell me. What do you suppose are the chances that God came down to earth and spoke to Mohammed (“the Prophet") who “heard voices” and proceeded to dictate the Koran? One in 10,000? One in 100,000? How about zero?
Yet, otherwise intelligent, educated people actually believe this stuff! And maybe THAT is exactly the problem. Faith itself! The beliefs of fundamentalist Christians are more benign, but are no less outlandish, just as divisive, and just as dangerous. (Those of you who call yourself “moderate” Christians or Moslems empower the fundamentalists with your cherry-picking approach to the Bible and Koran)
When I hear someone argue that a religious belief “must be true because so many educated and intelligent people believe it," I say that the unwillingness of so-called intelligent people to rigorously question their religious faith makes them STUPID -- education level notwithstanding.
Sorry about that, but there’s no other possible conclusion!
What else can you say about someone who believes in fantasies without a shred of evidence and who never asks questions? Which is exactly what’s so scary about religious faith. When intelligent, rational people can be taken in hook, line and sinker by such crazy stuff, it only underscores the astonishing power that religious faith has over people. Just look at the faces of the demonstrators on television. Some undoubtedly have high IQs. Look at what “religious faith” does to them!
We need to remove the taboo that exists in our society about discussing religion. It needs to become socially acceptable to start questioning the very foundations of religious belief. Did God really come down to earth and work hand-in-hand with the ancient Hebrews to write the Bible? Including the slavery and stoning parts? Does it make any sense whatsoever that the “God Of Our Universe" (including all 100 billion galaxies!) would use a nomadic Middle Eastern tribe to spread “His Word”?
It’s utterly nonsensical, of course, but so what! To “people of faith” it doesn’t matter that it makes no sense -- which is exactly WHY we must remove the taboo. We can’t allow this to go on, if we want our species to survive on this earth.
The only answer I see is education. Instead of starting a religious war like Bush has done, we should have set about educating every kid in the world (as Clinton suggested before 9/11). And if and when we ever do, let’s leave out “intelligent design” and not listen to mentally-challenged zealots like Bush who say “the jury is still out.”
Bush said yesterday that the bombing of the Shiite mosque is an "affront to people of faith." Somebody should tell our president that it's the very "people of faith" he speaks of who did the bombing in the first place! Not only that, they did it because they are people of faith!
We talk in this country as if “people of faith” are better or wiser, that we’d be a better country if all of us had religious faith. That is wrong! Just the opposite is true.
Bush has spoken in the past of the “hijacking of a great religion.” Why is it a “great religion”, Mr. President?” You tell me. What do you suppose are the chances that God came down to earth and spoke to Mohammed (“the Prophet") who “heard voices” and proceeded to dictate the Koran? One in 10,000? One in 100,000? How about zero?
Yet, otherwise intelligent, educated people actually believe this stuff! And maybe THAT is exactly the problem. Faith itself! The beliefs of fundamentalist Christians are more benign, but are no less outlandish, just as divisive, and just as dangerous. (Those of you who call yourself “moderate” Christians or Moslems empower the fundamentalists with your cherry-picking approach to the Bible and Koran)
When I hear someone argue that a religious belief “must be true because so many educated and intelligent people believe it," I say that the unwillingness of so-called intelligent people to rigorously question their religious faith makes them STUPID -- education level notwithstanding.
Sorry about that, but there’s no other possible conclusion!
What else can you say about someone who believes in fantasies without a shred of evidence and who never asks questions? Which is exactly what’s so scary about religious faith. When intelligent, rational people can be taken in hook, line and sinker by such crazy stuff, it only underscores the astonishing power that religious faith has over people. Just look at the faces of the demonstrators on television. Some undoubtedly have high IQs. Look at what “religious faith” does to them!
We need to remove the taboo that exists in our society about discussing religion. It needs to become socially acceptable to start questioning the very foundations of religious belief. Did God really come down to earth and work hand-in-hand with the ancient Hebrews to write the Bible? Including the slavery and stoning parts? Does it make any sense whatsoever that the “God Of Our Universe" (including all 100 billion galaxies!) would use a nomadic Middle Eastern tribe to spread “His Word”?
It’s utterly nonsensical, of course, but so what! To “people of faith” it doesn’t matter that it makes no sense -- which is exactly WHY we must remove the taboo. We can’t allow this to go on, if we want our species to survive on this earth.
The only answer I see is education. Instead of starting a religious war like Bush has done, we should have set about educating every kid in the world (as Clinton suggested before 9/11). And if and when we ever do, let’s leave out “intelligent design” and not listen to mentally-challenged zealots like Bush who say “the jury is still out.”
posted by Jim Fleming | 10:00 AM
10 Comments:
“I say that the unwillingness of so-called intelligent people to rigorously question their religious faith makes them STUPID -- education level notwithstanding.
Sorry about that, but there’s no other possible conclusion!”
When people (including myself) have blind faith, it’s makes it all worth while when something truly does happen to make one believe.
In the book of John verse 20 line 29, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who haven’t seen me and believe anyway.”
I went on blind faith for a long time. I even questioned it when I was twenty-three years old. Was there indeed, a deity? I was raised Catholic---and became a Christian when I finally had proof that God is real in my life. I have had my own spiritual experiences to know ‘for myself’ that He is real. I feel bad for people who don’t believe. They will soon find out; we live such short lives on this earth.
Of course there are a lot of people who say ‘the universe’ created them; or the ‘big bang’ theory. That’s fine. I respect other people’s beliefs and non-beliefs, however, I would never call them stupid for ‘not believing’, because that to me in an act of ignorance and shows a juvenile behavior. Calling someone ‘stupid’ because of what they believe shows me that the maturity level hasn’t ripened for this person to be sociably acceptable in this world. They come off as angry. It shows a lack of respect, and most likely, a person who doesn’t have many friends and most likely single. I can just see by the number of comments on your blog, that you may want to be a little more tactful in your approach.
Remember, every person is different; unique with their own set of beliefs. Ranting and raving of how absurd it is to believe of a deity and to have faith just shows that you’re not a very accepting person. Yes, I know, you accept ‘facts’ only. Science and spirituality do not coincide, and it never will. “IN my belief”, God made science. He wouldn’t want humankind to find out His plan for us.
Here’s a great scripture that is from the bible. It at least gives you something to think about.
Job 38:1-39 Then the Lord answered Job from the whirlwind; “Who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorant words? Brace yourself, because I have some questions for you, and you must answer them.
Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. Do you know how its dimensions were determined and who did the surveying? What supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone and the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? Who defined the boundaries of the sea as it burst from the womb, and as I clothed it with clouds and thick darkness? For I locked it behind barred gates, limiting its shoes. I said, ‘Thus far and no farther will you come. Here your proud waves must stop!’
Have you ever commanded the morning to appear and caused the dawn to rise in the east? Have you ever told the daylight to spread to the ends of the earth, to bring and end to the night’s wickedness? For the features of the earth take shape as the light approaches, and the dawn is robed in red. The light disturbs the haunts of the wicked and it stops the arm that is raised in violence.
Have you explored the springs from which the seas come? Have you walked about and explored their depths? Do you know where the gates of death are located? Have you seen the gates of utter gloom? Do you realize the extent of the earth? Tell me about it if you know! Where does the light come from, and where does the darkness go? Can you take it to its home? Do you know how to get there? But of course you know all this! For you were born before it was all created, and you are so very experienced!
Have you visited the treasuries of the snow? Have you seen where the hail is made and stored? I have reserved it for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war. Where is the path to the origin of light? Where is the home of the east wind?
Who created a channel for the torrents of rain? Who laid out the path for the
lightning? Who makes the rain fall on barren land, in a desert where no one lives? Who sends the rain that satisfies the parched ground and makes the tender grass spring up?
Does the rain have a father? Where does dew come from? Who is the mother of the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens? For the water turns to ice as hard as rock, and the surface of water freezes.
Can you hold back the movements of the stars? Are you able to restrain the Pleiades or Orion? Can you ensure the proper sequence of the seasons or guide the
constellation of the Bear with her cubs across the heavens? Do you know the laws of the universe and how God rules the earth?
Can you shout to the clouds and make it rain? Can you make lightning appear and cause it to strike as you direct it? Who gives intuition and instinct? Who is wise enough to count all the clouds? Who can tilt the water jars of heaven, turning the dry dust to clumps of mud? Can you stalk prey for a lioness and satisfy the young lions’ appetites as they lie in their dens or crouch in the thicket? Who provides food for the ravens when their young cry out to God as they wander about in hunger?”
If you can answer all those questions, I give you credit. The devil comes as an intelligent angel of light. He also tries to persuade people with all his might to ‘not’ believe. You’re certainly doing a fine job of trying your best for Satan. With strong believers, you can never crush them. You can never sway them from not believing.
My belief is so strong, that it’s knowledge. Your post didn’t offend me, however it made me sad for you. I will pray for you though. I feel you’re a misguided man who has a lot of questions in his head. And that’s ‘okay’. There’s nothing wrong with that.
My question to you is, why are you trying to desperately to try to convince believers that God is a silly thing to believe in? Isn’t it enough that you have your own beliefs? Aren’t you content with your own ‘earthly beliefs’?
Apparently you’re not happy with your own set standards, or you wouldn’t be posting so many topics of how religion and faith in God is so absurd.
I hope you find happiness somewhere. Thanks for emailing me to come see your blog.
Warmest regards,
Deb
P.S. Here's a message just for you! Click on this.
Dear Deb,
I do appreciate your comments. I am by nature "respectful" of other people, but not necessarily their beliefs, particularly when I think those beliefs are harmful to humanity, which to me "religious faith" is. Even so, I do NOT share my postings with some deeply religious family members whom I don't want to offend.
While I would love to cause a few people to "see the light," I don't have much hope, given the nature of religious faith. I do believe we'd have a better, more loving world without religion.
As for the "unhappiness" that you assume I experience, I'm the first to admit that I'd probably be happier if I "KNEW FOR SURE" that God was on MY side and that I would be rewarded when I died. (Like the Muslim fanatics?). Wouldn't that be nice?
But I'd still rather tell the truth, which is: WE DON'T KNOW!
Oh BTW, it's NOT that I don't believe in God. I just don't claim to know who God is or what he wants, and I neither do you or anyone else. That you or anyone "strongly believes" is irrelevant to the truth. You can't find stronger "believers" than Islamic extremists. But does their strong belief make it so?
Love,
Jim
Jim,
I understand that you need actual facts in order to believe. You need to ‘see’ for yourself. And that’s okay. There are all different types of extremes to everything. Muslim and Christian extremists ‘are’ dangerous to our world. For instance, you have the Christian KKK group, which basically thinks murdering or harming others of different races is okay in God’s eyes. Then you have Muslims who believe in killing the devil (America—which is their belief) and that’s how I can understand your reasoning behind the dangers towards humanity. It’s a valid point you make.
My belief in God and my faith in Jesus does not harm people. I love people, and I try to love (respect) people I come across day to day. I don’t pose any danger to anyone. I write inspirational books to lift up self-esteem and to share my stories of how God impacted my life—so I could be a better person. My religion (faith) teaches me to love one another; to respect one another and to understand and respect different views. If someone’s views are different from mine, I do not resort to ‘name calling’, or assuming that they’re stupid for their beliefs. It’s just disrespectful as a human to do something of that nature.
What’s your purpose in this life? Do you enjoy putting others down, just because your beliefs or non-beliefs are different? Does it give you a sense of satisfaction to let others know that you think they’re stupid for having faith in God? I would never call you stupid---I think you’re an intelligent man who needs a little more proof than the average man. That’s ‘okay’. And, I respect that. You’re *not* stupid OR *clueless* because of that.
Remember, words can tear down a person, or they can build them up. Words are very powerful and affective. Do you want to draw a positive energy towards you? Or do you want to offend people? If you’re not happy, then what would make you happier? I think the more positive vibes you send out there in the world, the better response you’ll get in return.
Don’t get me wrong Jim, I find you to be very interesting. I even find your politics to be intriguing, and very persuasive. You know, you have actually turned my political views in a different light. You present things in a very commanding way; a twist to what’s different. You have that talent. You have a blog that you can use to encourage—and not to discourage. In my opinion, I think sharing your views is great. I always love reading your work and seeing how your mind ticks… But with this last post, it offended me. It was as if you were telling “me”, I was stupid. That’s why I was a bit harsh with my first comment. So with that, I do apologize if you were offended.
You stated that you don’t claim to ‘know God’. If you don’t seek Him, you’ll never get to know Him. If you don’t study about Him, it’ll never come into fruition. I challenge you to sit down, and read the bible. Read up on the book of John. Learn about what miracles Jesus performed and what kind of person He was---and still is. Read it with an open mind. I’m not trying to say, “Oh be a Christian!” I’m just asking you to just sit down, and read some of it. Learn about it more, and then if you come to the conclusion that God is not real, then that’s your bag. That’s your thing. I can’t beg you or persuade you to do anything—but I can encourage you to learn more. Since I have been studying the word, I’ve had such interesting miracles in my life. Because of my belief and faith in God, things have changed---for the better. I can go on and on with a list of miracles that happened to me. And no, they weren’t coincidences. When I pray with all my heart, and meditate-----I ask God for certain things in my life-----and. it. happens. I never once was disappointed.
People disappoint, but God will never. I know this sounds all crazy to you. To me? It’s my life. For instance, if I knew I was dying today, I would be excited to meet God. The happiness that my faith gives me (God), is what makes me want to live my life. It makes me want to live life to the fullest. It encourages me to teach to others, and to lift them up----not to tear them down.
Worldly knowledge is not enough. It’s divine wisdom that only God could give to you that will make people gravitate to you. It draws a positive outcome and makes your life that much better.
Do you believe that when we die, we just turn into ash and our souls are nonexistent? What are your beliefs? Are you still searching for them?
You said, “But I’d still rather tell the truth, which is: WE DON’T KNOW!”
You may speak for yourself on that statement. But ask yourself, are you seeking the truth---or is this your final answer? (No it’s not the millionaire question either!)
Thank you for responding.
All the best,
Deb
hello Jim I am a huge question asker, and seeker of the truth. I've read a lot from the "Back to Genesis" series, and the Institute for Creation Research. So, I would encourage anyone who needs proof to visit these two organizations, and read what these Christian Scientists have to say, there is a lot of research and other factual findings to back up the bible, so not everyone that has religious faith is unquestioning, I am living proof. There is always an arguement for both sides of the coin, but I think that you are forgetting one basic thing about religious faith and that is HOPE. without hope, many people would simply not get up in the morning. If you take away their hope, what is there? Tell a teenager, there is no God, and faith is stupid, and risk them slashing their wrists. There has to be meaning to life, and without that, life is hopeless. So i see it as a no lose situation. I have nothing to lose. If i'm wrong, and there is no heaven, ??? If i'm right, and there is a heaven, bonus. What have I got to lose by believing, nothing. Not everyone is like Bush, or other rude people who push their religion off on others. No one should push anything off on another person.
Susie,
Even believers don't think there's "proof" to back up the Bible or any religion. Don't they always say it's "a matter of faith"?
As for "meaning to life," lots of us admit we just don't know. I would have no hesitation to tell that to a teenager because (to me) it's the truth and there's beauty in truth. Remember, I never said "there is no God." I say his or her nature is "unknown and unknowable" to all of us. The only difference with relgious people is they THINK they know.
I understand the "what do I have to lose?" argument (Pascal, isn't it?), but the best I could do is "pretend I believe" and I can't imagine that God would want that!
Thanks for your comment.
Hi Jim,
Just wanted to comment again…Sick of me yet?
You said: “Even believers don't think there's "proof" to back up the Bible or any religion. Don't they always say it's a matter of faith?”
I have to say, ‘for myself’, it’s not just a matter of faith, but I have experienced some personal miracles of my own and spiritual experiences that leave me to not only believe; but to know.
It depends on each individual and where they’re at. Everyone’s different. And everyone has a right to believe ~or~ not believe.
Warmest regards...
Deb,
I understand, and I wholeheartedly agree that we all have a right to believe, or not believe, as we choose. The men who wrote our Constitution were wise indeed.
I think we all experience miracles, even those of us without religious faith. I know I do. I think it's due in part to having an "Expect A Miracle" attitude.
I'm glad we can believe so differently and still have a conversation that shows mutual respect.
I can't imagine EVER getting "sick of" hearing from you.
Love,
Jim
Hey Jim... Hope you don't mind a stranger breaking in here. I don't mean any offense, as I'm sure you didn't with your comments, but I think it's just as dangerous and devisive to disqualify the faith of others as it is to engage in some of the faiths you mention. Being an athiest, agnostic, or any other brand of nonfaith is really just its own faith. We "cherry-pickers" don't really consider ourselves cherry-pickers, we just interpret differently, and given that we're working off a metaphorical text that has been translated numerous times, interpretation is necessary. And trust me, the last thing I do is offer any legitimacy to fanatical Christians. I tear into them on a daily basis, because they don't really engage in a faith at all. Faith requires the recognition that one may be wrong, and the decision to believe anyway. Since they believe that they posess an unquestionable truth, they really engage in a Christian pseudoscience.
Frankly, I think faith does a lot of good. I'm an educated, well-read person who has chosen faith because it makes more sense than soulless science or cold philosophy. The problem with fanatic Muslims, Christians, or any of fanatics, is that they don't really nurture faith, but cling to dangerous false truths with such fervor that they protect it from truth and critical thought like a bear protecting her cubs.
Zafrod,
I appreciate your "breaking in". That's what it's for.
You have an interesting take on the subject. You say you have relgious faith, but with the recognition that you "may be wrong." I have always thought of religious faith as something people "know" is true, not something they "make a decision to believe in." By admitting you don't know -- your faith notwithstanding -- aren't you admitting to agnosticism?
I won't say having "faith" in what we can't know is always bad, but certainly in some respects it is. Take creationism. Over half our population believes in it! Yet evolution is as much settled science as water equals H2O. How does it benefit people to be lied to? Because it makes them feel good? Not a good reason! (Especially when the U.S. is desperately short of scientists!)
I hear you Jim. In fact, I hear that a lot from my atheists friends, with whom I share a mutual respect of beliefs. Nah, I'm absolutely not agnostic. Believing that one has discovered a universal truth that merits no further examination isn't faith... like I said, that's a pseudoscience. You wouldn't say that you have "faith" that the air around you contains water molocules... you just know it to be true. You can't see it, and you don't feel the need to test it, but you accept it as fact. Science. Faith is a little different, although it is poorly represented by the loudest evangelical Christians. I recognize that it is impossible to tangibly validate my beliefs through proof. It's not a science. It's a philosophy. To boil it down simply, it is equally beyond proof to claim that there is a divine consciousness or that there is not. I can not verify for you that there is, and you can't prove to me that there isn't. I'm not tying that in to any other tenets; I'm not making claims about Biblical Creationism vs. Evolution or anything like that... simply that there is or isn't a divine consciousness of some sort. If you can agree that both stances are beyond proof, then in fact your atheism is very much a form of faith, not science. Your belief in Creationism is science... it's provable with tangible evidence. Perhaps that scientific belief lends itself to your lack of faith in the divine, and by extension your faith in there being no divine. But that there is no divine consciousness beyond what we can perceive is a belief of faith for you, what you choose to believe and not what can be proven to you.
So why do I choose to believe in the divine, knowing that I can't prove to anyone, including myself, that I'm correct? Well, first of all, as I stated, the options are simply other faiths... there is no stance on the divine that requires no faith... having no faith is what I'd describe as agnostic, but once you start putting the time into thinking about these things, it becomes difficult to remain truly agnostic. Given that, I've chosen the faith that has the most meaning for me. It's difficult to boil years of thinking, discussing, and writing into a quick response here, but basically, I see nothing in nature that leads me to the (somewhat arrogant, in my opinion) belief that humans are the highest form of consciousness. The nucleus of the ameoba can't concieve of the brain of the fish, which can't conceive of the mind of a dog, which can't conceive of the philosophy of man. Why, then, should I believe that I'm at the top of the mental and spiritual food chain simply because I can't conceive of anything greater?
Is faith dangerous? Sure. But any faith can be dangerous, frankly. Sure, Evangelical Christianity can be used to support religious genocide, but atheism can be used to support institutionalized social darwinism. What, ultimately, is the difference? The point isn't which faith one embraces, but whether or not that faith encourages the person to acts of empathy and kindness, or acts of jusgement and arrogance.
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